Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
Nov 15 Can both versions be played at the same time? I would play a lot of classic wow in between the queue times in modern wow. I have to wait for queues for raids, wait for M+, wait for pvp queues, wait for mount respawns. During the demo, I had to decide if I wanted to test out the classic demo, or obtain new items on my modern characters. I would have played a lot more classic wow during my downtime in modern wow, but there was an issue where my modern wow account would be logged out of the game, if my classic wow account demo logged in. Pretty please, I would really like if the classic account did not log out the modern wow account and both could be logged in at the same time.Hunterhir8 Nov 15

You're absolutely right! I've changed the opening—I hope it gives you and your list the credit you deserve. As for those other tools, I didn't include them originally because I didn't consider them to be class specific. I'll include the Base Stats Calculator here, plus add a message at the top directing people to your list if they want a more comprehensive index!
Another hurdle we had to overcome was how to store and merge our data. World of Warcraft has multiple updates or patches in development at any one time, each in a different stage of development. If an art asset or terrain file is added to one patch, the system is designed so that it also automatically shows up in later patches. This meant that If we had simply inserted a new patch for WoW Classic into the current development environment, we would have overwritten things like the current broken dam in Loch Modan with the previous intact version—and as you can imagine, this would have caused issues for Battle for Azeroth.
In OSRS, before bonds (their equivalent of tokens) were released, there was a strong gold industry, but most people who bought gold did so by buying bonds on the main game, then finding a dedicated 'swapper' who'd exchange their RS3 gold for an appropriate amount of OSRS gold (taking a cut for themselves, of course). I wonder if a similar system will pop up in classic wow
Who is Joana?  Joana, (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul) speedran 1-60 vanilla WoW from 2005 - 2007.  I have been server first to level 60 seven times in a row, along with winning Blizzard's "First to level 50" contest they held back in 2006.  I also have the fastest time through original vanilla 1-60 WoW in 4 days 20 hours. I have produced a very useful 1-60 horde speed leveling guide along with a 1-60 speedrun video.
Even though the guide was developed with a hunter, the guide can be followed by any class.  Except you have to do your class's quests which aren't a whole lot.  I do have full intention to make my guide friendly with all classes in the future by listing all of their steps as well.  There will be a toggle that allows you to show which class's steps you want to see in the guide.  But this is coming later.
My personal favourites include "Tauren's hitboxes and their melee reach is slightly larger than other races" - those bloody taurens were the bane of my Night Elf's life! - "Feared players and NPCs run fast" - I always seemed to end up being feared into an angry pack of mobs - and, "Standing on top of other players while facing away allows spells and attacks to be used."

Nov 15 Looking Forward. So simple fun thread to see how you all think and feel. Name 1 thing you are definitely looking forward to, preferably not the obvious stuff but whatever go wild! I'll start with one. Professions aiding in immersion. Not sure if many noticed this but something I am excited about playing a hunter is the professions and how they aid in immersion for the hunter class so freaking well. All of the secondary profs help hunter immersion. Cooking, Fishing and First Aid all actually fueled the hunter lifestyle. Add in Skinning and Leather Working and it's straight up Hunter RPG.Melaned22 Nov 15


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Logging in for the first time, being welcomed by THAT login screen and THAT music... You can't not be taken back if you've played Vanilla, and especially if you've played 2 years of it non-stop all day every day. I probably stayed 10 minutes in character creation just because of the music alone (and trying to get my character looking exactly as it did back then - although I wasn't a shaman then). The whole intro experience was especially amazing for me since the Tauren starting zone was my first encounter with WoW in the EU beta, and a little bit of that spark did return. But is that all Classic has to offer? A trip back in time when we were wowed by the game for the very first time?
With the Classic beta now out it seems every related article somehow manages to spark the eternal war of "Vanilla was the best WoW sucks now" and "lol nostalgia goggles, Vanilla sucked, enjoy your two weeks of Classic". I have to say, even though I understand the principles behind the battle and the reasons people behave and talk this way... I actually REALLY don't get it on a deeper level.
So we asked ourselves, would it still be possible to deliver an authentic classic experience if we took our modern code, with all its back-end improvements and changes, and used it to process the Patch 1.12 game data? While that might seem counterintuitive, this would inherently include classic systems like skill ranks, old quests and terrain, talents, and so on, while later features like Transmog and Achievements would effectively not exist because they were entirely absent from the data. After weeks of R&D, experimentation, and prototyping, we were confident we could deliver the classic WoW content and gameplay without sacrificing the literally millions of hours put in to back-end development over the past 13 years.
Nov 15 How to fix paladin dps Just make holy wrath & exorcism work on all types of enemy but not affect player characters. It's an easy fix that will make pally dps better in pve but stay the same as they were in vanilla in pvp. Put this thing into a deep ret talent so it will require people to spec deep in ret to be able to dps. A good spot is add it with two-hand weapon specialization making it so that by putting talents into it all hostile aside from players and undeads(since they are already affected by the default version) to be affected by the dmg and effects of the spells effectiveness by 33%/66%/100%. I doubt they would even do this so im just throwing out ideas since too many of you dont actually read the forum and only read the OP here you go to explain a bit of my reasoning because this change wont make ret stronger than pure dps; clearly most of you people didnt play vanilla nor know anything about naxx. ...Toushin260 Nov 15
This was a good start, but there were issues with how the developers used to handle updates to the database data. Unlike the source code, for which Blizzard had archives for multiple branches of the game that could be worked on and developed as separate pieces, early database data was overwritten with each commensurate update. Thankfully, that problem was fixed very quickly after launch, and when we looked, we found data going back to version 1.12—and even earlier.
Preface - I haven't played WoW for any length of time since quitting at the end of WotLK. I dabbled in the next few expansions, where it seemed gold was overabundant, not sure if that's what killed the gold farmers/gold bots/sellers, but I didn't seem to see any, or even think I might have a use for them. However, with WoW Classic, I can see a market for them to come back. Did Blizz ever put something in the game to eliminate this after WotLK, or was it the gold abundance that destroyed their market. If not, I see the gold sellers and websites coming back.
Nov 15 C2C interview with Theloras aka ME Hey everyone, Earlier today I spent some time with the Man, the Myth, the Legend who is Countdown to Classic and we spent some time discussing what I and many other Paladins are most looking forward to in the upcoming WoW Classic demo that will be available during Blizzcon: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/325334774 Since it looks like just Elwynn Forest for the Alliance and Durotar for the Horde will be available to play/test during the upcoming demo/beta, only early level gameplay will be possible to test at any length. But even with that limitation, a major core mechanic for Paladins will be able to be tested and theory crafted. I am of course referring to JUDGEMENT STACKING which I outlined in the thread below along with several other mechanics/talents/items that are still lingering and unanswered questions: Proc Items + Spell Dmg + JotC stacking? https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760205815#post-1 TLDR - I found actual Vanilla era evidence (posted in the thread above) which stated that all ranks of each individual Judgement stacked with one another - Judgement of Light (JoL), Judgement of Wisdom (JoW) and most critically in this case, Judgement of the Crusader (JotC): With pvp gloves, libram and 3/3 imp JotC = +829 holy damage JotC R1 +79 Holy Damage JotC R2 +90 Holy Damage JotC R3 +113 Holy Damage JotC R4 +148 Holy Damage JotC R5 +182 Holy Damage JotC R6 +217 Holy Damage Since rank 1 Seal/Judgement of the Crusader is learned at level 6 and rank 2 is learned at level 12, if Elwynn Forest ends up being the only zone open for testing, then reaching level 12 is definitely doable from quest turnins and XP from mob kills. Which will allow 2 Paladins to join as a group and coordinate each of them putting up rank 1 and rank 2 of Judgement of the Crusader accordingly. If this proves to be correct, then it would forever change the LOLRET Meta with the simple fact that the more Retribution Paladins you have in a group/raid, the more powerful each of them then become and would also allow other class/specs come to the forefront as well namely Discipline Priests spamming Smite. At any rate, the twitch interview link is above - we had some audio technical issues at the start so if you fast forward to the 5:00 mark - you can hear the full interview. PS as a bonus, later on in the interview the Crazy OOMkin named Keftenk makes a special guest appearance :) https://twitter.com/count2classicTheloras111 Nov 15
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24 Nov 15
Who is Joana?  Joana, (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul) speedran 1-60 vanilla WoW from 2005 - 2007.  I have been server first to level 60 seven times in a row, along with winning Blizzard's "First to level 50" contest they held back in 2006.  I also have the fastest time through original vanilla 1-60 WoW in 4 days 20 hours. I have produced a very useful 1-60 horde speed leveling guide along with a 1-60 speedrun video.
The first—and among the most important—decision we had to make was which version of the game to focus on. As many of you have noted, the classic period was two years long and full of changes. Core features like Battlegrounds were introduced in patches after WoW’s original launch, and class design similarly changed over time. After careful consideration, we decided on Patch 1.12: Drums of War as our foundation, because it represents the most complete version of the classic experience.
This was a good start, but there were issues with how the developers used to handle updates to the database data. Unlike the source code, for which Blizzard had archives for multiple branches of the game that could be worked on and developed as separate pieces, early database data was overwritten with each commensurate update. Thankfully, that problem was fixed very quickly after launch, and when we looked, we found data going back to version 1.12—and even earlier.

As it had been executed in Vanilla, Can Blizz launch the PvP rank system? As somebody who was wow classic gold around back then, and without needing to get overly hand-wringy, I feel that the position system itself supported some fairly unhealthy behaviors. That top rank took months of continuous grinding, and I mean constant, 10 to 12 hours each day, to the stage where people weren’t even functioning properly and everything out of that honor grind was excluded. There were things in WoW Classic that you had to forfeit your wellbeing and life outside of WoW Classic to obtain.
Sharding eliminates server load and realm stability. Cross-realm sharding is here so that players are evenly distributed across realms and helps combat underpopulation. Sharding at launch is vital to ensure a stable launch of an expansion. Starting zones would be filled with millions of people and that would turn even accepting a quest into a nightmare. Disadvantages of Sharding

Other decisions were slightly less clear cut. At one point in WoW’s history, there was an 8 debuff limit on any one target. This was later raised to 16, and today there is no debuff limit. Thes change radically changed the balance of classes and strategies players could employ when using these debuffs to overcome content. To preserve that balance—and to avoid the slippery slope of retuning patch 1.12 data to compensate for such modern-era changes—we’re looking at setting a debuff limit of 16 for WoW Classic.


Through out the game, the quest log will be capped to 20 many times.  The guide makes use of maximizing the total amount of quests you can accept at once.  Because of this it is important to follow the guide exactly and only accept quests if the guide tells you to so you won't run into issues not being able to accept a quest.  If you do accept a quest that is not listed in the guide, write it down because you may need to abandon it in order to keep following the guide if your quest log is full.
When I actually have gotten into raiding, it was TBC, which still had many weird leftovers from vanilla. Often it was a struggle to recruit people, more so than with bosses, because that needed holy paladin disappeared and we needrf exactly this class and spec. It was more often about "bring class, not a player", had even to decline some better players because we had enough of "x" class. It was one of good things, when compositions became more flexible. 

Players will start from level 1 and will progress through level 60 with real, Blizzlike x1 rates. Old PvP battlegrounds are: Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the famous 40vs40 players Alterac Valley where battles were known to last more than 24 hours. 20 and 40 man raids will be available for Molten Core, Zul Gurub, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj 20 & 40 and the original Naxxramas raid in the Eastern Plaguelands.
Leatherworking has three specializations: Elemental, Tribal and Dragonscale. I’d pick up Tribal one. It allows to craft Devilsaur set items. Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, even Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins are among your potential clients. On any realm there is Un’Goro Mafia on Horde and Alliance, they control whole Un’Goro Crater zone and farm Devilsaurs 24/7. They are making thousands of gold. With Dragonscale Spec you are able to craft Black Dragon Mail set. Good demand as well among DPS classes Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins, for those who wants Bis Pre-Raid items fast and easy.
We’re still looking at how we can best deliver an authentic Classic experience at launch, and in the weeks and months that follow - both in terms of gameplay and community. You won’t see phasing (which is tied to specific quests that don't exist in Classic) or cross-realm zones (which combine multiple realms together) in Classic. However, realm sharding is one of the best tools we have to keep realms stable when hundreds of players are swarming the same initial few zones and killing the same few mobs (like they will be at the launch of Classic). To that end, we do believe that some form of sharding may be helpful, especially in those early days. But we recognize that a cohesive world is critical to WoW Classic and are committed to bringing that to you. Layering in Classic WoW
This is the first faction exclusive class available only for the Alliance players. Paladins in World of Warcraft: Classic end-game were considered as one of the best single target healers around. However, other Paladin specs were not that popular. While Protection Paladins found their spot with tanking groups of mobs across the dungeons, Retribution Paladins weren’t very popular in the end-game. However, Paladins were amazing levelers and World PvP participants due to their amazing utility skills and ‘oh shit’ buttons such as Lay on Hands or Bubble.
Expected More That WoW Classic Will Resurrect That Hardcore Breed Of MMO That So Many Players Originally Fell In Love With. In World Of Warcraft Classic, It's Built Using Patch 1.12, Titled Drums Of War, Released On August 22, 2006, Equipment And Abilities Will Remain Stable In Order To Reflect The Minor Adjustment That Blizzard Made With Each Path While Dungeons, Raids, And PVP Features Will Constantly Change.
Our initial runs exposed a few (expected) issues: the game sometimes crashed, didn’t recognize our modern video cards, and was incompatible with our current login system. That first pass also couldn’t support any of our modern security and anti-cheating capabilities. Clearly we had a lot of work to do to make WoW Classic live up to the Blizzard standard of quality, and deliver the experience players want.
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Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
Even though a modern server architecture is used, Classic servers won't have the same features that current World of Warcraft does. There won't be cross-realm servers or Looking For Raid and Dungeon Finder automatic party matchmaking. There are still a lot of questions about how the team will tackle it. This endeavor is being undertaken by an entirely separate team at Blizzard from the one working on World of Warcraft and its next expansion.[2]

For another example of lighting, we looked at Elwynn Forest. We had a period in Warcraft’s history where we changed all the lighting equations and as a result, our environment artists had to take a pass over all of the zones to improve the lighting and take advantage of the new equations. To recreate the original experience, we had to rewind those changes. The first thing we did was restore the old lighting data. This brought us much closer to the original lighting—and with a few more changes to the distance formula, fog formulas, and some changes to shadows, we were able to bring things even closer to the original lighting. 

Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4 Nov 15

Nov 15 Skeletons RIP Please allow skeletons of dead players to Rest In Peace. Witnessing the aftermath of a city / town raid and seeing a blanket of bones that told a story of how the battle went down, really helped add to the MMORPG feel. I did not play the “demo” but reports say that skeletons disappear fairly quick. #nochangesMakinb17CEDC26 Nov 15
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
I made some route changes to the Horde levels 43-44 sections.  I have swapped 44 Dustwallow Marsh with 44 Desolace (the entire sections). This allowed me to do Deadmire (at lvl 43 instead of 38) and then go stop at TB to turn in Deadmire + The Black Shield at the same time, then fly quickly to do the Desolace stuff.  Doing 44 Desolace is now mandatory because I think its faster with the new routes. This will also make the level 53 grind much shorter.  I think these were great changes. 

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Nov 15 Loot sharing. Fools How stupid is the community about loot sharing? You know there is master loot right? Stop being dumb guys like holy crap. You also know that if you're the guy setting up a group or joining a group you have a option not to run or you can pick player's of different armor types... If you're a cloth wearer you just don't run or set up a group with other cloth wearers. Like this is something so simple and the community can't graps anything. I feel bad for blizzard sometimes with having to deal with brain power of this community. The community: "Oh, I didn't think about that. Derp, I'm an idiot."Plewtoe23 Nov 15
One player said in a comment posted in response to the list, “Yeah people don’t realize the sheer enormity of game system evolution WoW has gone through since release. I’m not the biggest fan of BoA by any stretch, but I’ve played since closed beta vanilla, and I doubt I’ll be going back to classic. Leveling was painful. Experiencing these old systems once was enough.” 

Nov 15 Article Explains Why No Communication So this is why we aren't getting updates, communication, customer service, etc, that Blizzard has provided in the past: https://www.influencerupdate.biz/news/67499/blizzards-saralyn-smith-the-power-is-with-the-influencers-we-all-know-that-its-the-age-of-influencers/ A youtuber actually breaks it down here for analysis: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEaIAPoCDPc What an absurd joke. If this is going to be a successful game in ~8 months, we need the communication to be open, flowing back and forth, as it was in 2004-2006. Telling yourself otherwise is a lie. There's absolutely no reason third parties should be filters between Blizzard and the Players/Customers.Bynisarron31 Nov 15

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