Swim Speed Potions (used especially at lvl 37 for Faldir's Cove in Arathi Highlands and lvl 57 in WPL).  Try to get multiple stacks of these.  I also recommend keeping a stack of these always in your bags.  You will frequently pass rivers and lakes and can use these potions to pass them faster through out the guide.  Please note that these potions do not stack with Druid's Aquatic Form and Glyph of Aquatic Form.

Classic WoW is the highly anticipated, upcoming (re) release of the original, first World of Warcraft version, known as Classic and by it's other popular ice-cream like name: Vanilla WoW. Dubbed Retail Classic, or Official Classic by the playerbase - it was finally announced by Blizzard in November 2017, after a lot of pressure from the Private Server World of Warcraft community, since the latter's shutdown of the most popular Private Server called Nostalrius which featured the first WoW version in two separate PvP and PvE servers. 

Nov 15 C2C interview with Theloras aka ME Hey everyone, Earlier today I spent some time with the Man, the Myth, the Legend who is Countdown to Classic and we spent some time discussing what I and many other Paladins are most looking forward to in the upcoming WoW Classic demo that will be available during Blizzcon: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/325334774 Since it looks like just Elwynn Forest for the Alliance and Durotar for the Horde will be available to play/test during the upcoming demo/beta, only early level gameplay will be possible to test at any length. But even with that limitation, a major core mechanic for Paladins will be able to be tested and theory crafted. I am of course referring to JUDGEMENT STACKING which I outlined in the thread below along with several other mechanics/talents/items that are still lingering and unanswered questions: Proc Items + Spell Dmg + JotC stacking? https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20760205815#post-1 TLDR - I found actual Vanilla era evidence (posted in the thread above) which stated that all ranks of each individual Judgement stacked with one another - Judgement of Light (JoL), Judgement of Wisdom (JoW) and most critically in this case, Judgement of the Crusader (JotC): With pvp gloves, libram and 3/3 imp JotC = +829 holy damage JotC R1 +79 Holy Damage JotC R2 +90 Holy Damage JotC R3 +113 Holy Damage JotC R4 +148 Holy Damage JotC R5 +182 Holy Damage JotC R6 +217 Holy Damage Since rank 1 Seal/Judgement of the Crusader is learned at level 6 and rank 2 is learned at level 12, if Elwynn Forest ends up being the only zone open for testing, then reaching level 12 is definitely doable from quest turnins and XP from mob kills. Which will allow 2 Paladins to join as a group and coordinate each of them putting up rank 1 and rank 2 of Judgement of the Crusader accordingly. If this proves to be correct, then it would forever change the LOLRET Meta with the simple fact that the more Retribution Paladins you have in a group/raid, the more powerful each of them then become and would also allow other class/specs come to the forefront as well namely Discipline Priests spamming Smite. At any rate, the twitch interview link is above - we had some audio technical issues at the start so if you fast forward to the 5:00 mark - you can hear the full interview. PS as a bonus, later on in the interview the Crazy OOMkin named Keftenk makes a special guest appearance :) https://twitter.com/count2classicTheloras111 Nov 15
Nov 15 Guild Banks Pt. 14 So let's take our minds off subs and sharding and have a nice classic discussion about guild banks. Guild banks are still by far the least impactful on gameplay and most spirit of Vanilla community change one could request. Not only that the log keeps officers and gm's honest. Without logs they are free to skim off the top of donations and trivialize their epic mount purchase. Thoughts?Padrepwn91 Nov 15
Once we had our starting point, we began taking stock of what we had in the source code and what we could make available, which included restoring the original development database from archival backups. After stitching various key pieces together, we had a locally rebuilt version of Patch 1.12 running internally. The team could create characters and do basic questing and leveling—and dying, which we did many times. For testing purposes. Obviously.
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24	Nov 15 

Nov 15 You Absolutely Cannot Have Sharding This will not work well with a classic experience. Myself and the vast majority of my friends plan on coming back for classic. None of them want sharding. I know I don't speak for everyone but this mechanic will completely ruin the experience. Just voicing my opinion as I am incredibly excited about this project.Wurmknight82 Nov 15
I now have a Patreon Page where you guys can support me while I work on Vanilla WoW leveling guides every day.  I appreciate all of you who support me on there, it means a lot to me right now.  Doing this full time is taxing on my financial situation.  My goal is to make the best Vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web and the donations keep me going at it healthfully.  There is also cool rewards you get in return for donating.  Thanks!
Old vanilla WoW footage and database information suggests durotar tigers should do 6-9 damage before mitigation. There is current beta footage of durotar tigers doing a completely normal amount of damage (5-7) to one person (tips, warrior), as we would expect. There is also beta footage of durotar tigers doing 1-3 damage to one person (joana, hunter). There has yet to be a compelling explanation for the discrepancy. However, most other information and first hand accounts report most mobs doing the amount of damage we would expect, so this appears to be an outlier.
File data: This is often very dense data like 3D models, textures, animations and terrain. Our user interface is built up from XML and Lua files. Many of the art files do not use the same file formats that commercial art tools spit out. Our build pipeline takes these raw art files and translates them into something optimized for our game to read and process.
 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.
Some quests in my guide are marked as "SKIP" and colored in red.  These quests are simply either too hard to solo or not worth the XP/time and are skipped.  My guide will only list SKIPPED quests if the quest is a direct follow up after completing a quest, not one that you have to click the NPC again to get it.  If you hover over the skipped quests, it will give info on why it is skipped in the guide (unless that info is already listed directly in the guide text). 

Players will start from level 1 and will progress through level 60 with real, Blizzlike x1 rates. Old PvP battlegrounds are: Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the famous 40vs40 players Alterac Valley where battles were known to last more than 24 hours. 20 and 40 man raids will be available for Molten Core, Zul Gurub, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj 20 & 40 and the original Naxxramas raid in the Eastern Plaguelands.
Nov 15 Professions Hey guys. Can you think of good items that you crafted and lasted for several levels at least? I have played on private servers and with 1.12 itemization, there was barely anything that I could use for even 3 levels. I have leveled up a leartheworker and only thing I remember using was Deviate Scale Belt. Yes, it's very decent and could last a few levels. But later, there are some blue gloves which are fine, but nothing brilliant. And "Guardian Belt"(+6 spirit, +6 stamina) is pathetic for a blue. I remember trying to craft Robe of power as Tailor for a mage but it wasn't that brilliant either, maybe you digress. :) Sure, at level 60, there are nice robes for tailors but before that, do you think using the 1.12 client diminishes the role of crafting professions for leveling? Imagine ability to craft some brilliant item(for each profession) at level 30 that would last full ten levels just like Warrior's Whirlwind Axe, would be decent, no? Warlocks also have similar quest for Enchanted Gold Bloodrobe, but for classes that don't have such class quests would be an enormous boost.Holylr34 Nov 15
Nov 13 WoW Classic BlizzCon Demo Pre-Download Hi everyone! We’re incredibly excited for you all to get your hands on the WoW Classic BlizzCon demo next week, and to help make things as smooth as possible, we’re making the client available to download for Virtual Ticket holders starting today. Over the next 24 hours, we’ll be enabling the ability to download the WoW Classic demo through the Battle.net app for players who have purchased the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket, as well as standard BlizzCon ticket holders who have added their Virtual Goodies code to their Battle.net account. If you don’t see the option to install the demo right away, don’t worry – you’ll still have plenty of time to download the client before the demo goes live during BlizzCon next week. We can’t wait for you to get a peek at what we’ve been working on, and hope you enjoy this preview of what’s to come!Ythisens156 Nov 13
Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15

Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15


 ":"  -  Any time a step ends in a ":" instead of a "." means that the next step is part of the current step you are on.  This generally means the next step should be done while working on the current step.  This means every "start working on" or "continue working on" will end in a ":".  But this is used with other occasions as well, so keep this in mind.

Nov 15 Looking Forward. So simple fun thread to see how you all think and feel. Name 1 thing you are definitely looking forward to, preferably not the obvious stuff but whatever go wild! I'll start with one. Professions aiding in immersion. Not sure if many noticed this but something I am excited about playing a hunter is the professions and how they aid in immersion for the hunter class so freaking well. All of the secondary profs help hunter immersion. Cooking, Fishing and First Aid all actually fueled the hunter lifestyle. Add in Skinning and Leather Working and it's straight up Hunter RPG.Melaned22 Nov 15

Nov 15 Which class are you planning on rolling? I'm still trying to decide between: Orc shaman: enhancement until 60 then resto for pvp Undead priest: shadow unless I decide to raid a bit Leaning towards these healers since I don't mind the role and 5 mans will be insanely easy to pickup. I've also been tossing around the idea of rogue/mage since that is what I played back on during vanilla/BC (had a blast ganking).Xano24 Nov 15


Players will start from level 1 and will progress through level 60 with real, Blizzlike x1 rates. Old PvP battlegrounds are: Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the famous 40vs40 players Alterac Valley where battles were known to last more than 24 hours. 20 and 40 man raids will be available for Molten Core, Zul Gurub, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj 20 & 40 and the original Naxxramas raid in the Eastern Plaguelands.
Nov 15 Question about the PVP system I am struggling to put the words to my question so let me just throw my 'plan' out there. Please correct me if my assumptions are wrong. Since horde are typically the pvp focused faction, I planned on rolling alliance on a pvp server with horde dominating the server in order to climb pvp ranks easier. My queue times would be instant and there would be less competition when trying to climb the ranks. The way I understand the honor system is that I am competing against others on my faction for a position on the ladder. Less competition would make it easier to climb. I know I will never get rank 14 and don't plan on it. I thought with my limited play time, if I was on a horde dominated pvp server I would cap around rank 6-7. Being on the alliance on the same realm I could get to 8-9 with the same /played. Is this true or do I have it wrong?Jdpp5 Nov 15

Nov 15 Molten Core in the 1st Week, UPDATE Nelson Mandela: “It always seems impossible until it's done.” www.exploitedgaming.com/charter The most hardcore guild in WoW is looking for a few good no-life nerds to join us on a historic adventure. Go to that site to see what raid positions we still need, on the front page! UPDATE: 11/14 We have filled all of our raid positions. Our guild is still *over recruiting* due to people dropping off, or not making the cutoff in time. If you really want to test the limits of endurance, and push yourself to be part of WoW history, I invite you to join us. Our guild will be hosting a free-roll Molten Core run before the first server reset. What does this mean? Assuming the server goes live on a Tuesday - we have 7 days access to Molten Core. So, on the 7th night, we will attempt to enter Molten Core. We will get as far as we can, and farm trash if we hit a roadblock. If the server goes live later in the week, a Friday for example, then we will have 10 or so days to try to progress in Molten Core in the first FULL week of available raiding. Requirements: Discord Level 55+ Healer Level 58+ DPS or tank Attuned Horde Basic consumables (obviously you won’t be expected to have everything you would months into the server, but potions, stat buff food, bandages) Basic gear (hit rating being the most important for DPS) Apply on the website to reserve a spot. www.exploitedgaming.com Note: This challenge is NOT for everyone. 18 hours a day on WoW, for a week straight. This is not healthy, nor is it easy. Proceed with caution, and remember your health is top priority.Bandulu433 Nov 15

Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
Nov 15 Classic hit me like a truck I had no interest in it what so ever. After watching the blizzcon demo - I can’t stop thinking about it. The combat it’s so visceral. The world is so much bigger and so much more dangerous. Each fight reminded me of dark souls. I’ve been watching only classic and vanilla vids since blizzcon, it’s actually ruined retail for me. I was actually enjoying raiding in BFA but now I don’t want anything but to play classic and immerse myself in it. What is this sorcery? I heard vanilla wow was addictive, but really? I feel like I’m in withdrawal and I haven’t even played it yet. I think I’m in trouble once it releases. I don’t want to log into retail anymore :(Gripp204 Nov 15
To gain gold in World of Warcraft, you will primarily be grinding professions which are fantastic for receiving rewards. Mining is an example of a great profession at an early-game level. While Herbalism is actually the best gathering profession, the issue is it uses consumables which can make the profession rather costly, with the investment required.
Nov 15 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 I Don't Have Time To Reach Rank 11-14 and this is perfectly ACCEPTABLE! I actually like the fact that rank 11-14 is extremely hard to get and time consuming. I don't care if it's not about skill, it is very RPG feeling in the fact that, the people who put in the most time and effort spilling the most enemy blood are the ones who get the best rewards. as somebody who will NEVER have a chance of getting those ranks and items because; 1. I do not have time to do it 2. even if I did have time I still wouldn't do it because I mentally could not farm BG's that many hours for 3 months I support the PvP system and think it is great, and acquiring the hugely powerful items is a big reward and a status symbol. in Classic WoW the game is less about YOU and more about your guild. even if you are not the person to get rank 14, or a Legendary item it still feels awesome when your guild mates get them because it will make your guild stronger. LOVE IT!Agonyy107 Nov 15
The Horde levels 50-60 guide has been rewritten and revamped.  My 1-60 Horde leveling guide is now completely updated for the 1.12 Drums of War patch.  As you can see it is about 15% larger than the 40-50 guide (single largest guide page yet).  There is also a lot of route changes.  I moved the entire Silithus section from level 55 to level 58, which allowed me to include a lot more quests for that zone.  There is also a lot of other improvement to the route, including adding a lot more quests into the guide, mostly from Moonglade, Silithus and Eastern Plaguelands.  This will make the final level 59 grind much shorter.

Our initial runs exposed a few (expected) issues: the game sometimes crashed, didn’t recognize our modern video cards, and was incompatible with our current login system. That first pass also couldn’t support any of our modern security and anti-cheating capabilities. Clearly we had a lot of work to do to make WoW Classic live up to the Blizzard standard of quality, and deliver the experience players want.


As you level, you will buy new ranks of spells. If you splurge out on an item upgrade, you will not have enough gold readily available to upgrade to the latest ranks of spells: placing you behind. Moreover, you can buy gear upgrades from the Auction House (AH) or vendors. Furthermore, you may have large investments that need to be paid for professors. You will need to purchase reagents and items such as leather, bolts of cloth, alchemy supplies – unless you have a charitable friend or another high-level alt.
Nov 15 Managing your time and Classic So how are you guys thinking you're going to do it? I know when I played Vannila, I sunk so much time into it as I didn't have any responsibilites. Nowadays I work 24 on, 48 off (which is actually good, except for raid days) and have a wife. I figure a lot of you will be in the same boat. That may be a good thing as it can slow the pace a bit.Crupzz4	Nov 15

My general (unfounded) suspicion is that mob damage tables are mostly correct, but there is some sort of mitigation/damage reduction occurring that has yet to be explained. The only way the tiger could do regular damage to a higher armour Tips and 1-3 damage to joana is if there is some mitigation occurring for joana and not tips, or if they are on different shards/layers and for some reason the stats are different between the layers (extremely unlikely/impossible), or the tiger in the joana clip just happens to be born with a disability. But I should probably leave the baseless conjecture to the experts.
Players will start from level 1 and will progress through level 60 with real, Blizzlike x1 rates. Old PvP battlegrounds are: Warsong Gulch, Arathi Basin and the famous 40vs40 players Alterac Valley where battles were known to last more than 24 hours. 20 and 40 man raids will be available for Molten Core, Zul Gurub, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj 20 & 40 and the original Naxxramas raid in the Eastern Plaguelands.
Nov 15 Classic Box Cost Disappointed in the decision to bundle the subs and (at least for now) not have a separate Classic sub option. That said, can we at least get a separate box cost for access to classic? It would: - help alleviate temporary bloat and subsequent dead realms - servers would be more stable population-wise over time - remove the bulk of the need for sharding - give a solid idea of how many servers will be needed - allow blizzard to set up a separate classic forum for those with a monetary commitment - with a separate forum group, feedback would be limited to those with a vested interest The subs would still be bundled, but there would be a box cost, akin to what one would have to pay for BFA access. A very good to-the-point post from later on in this thread:... Another good post about how the current setup would necessitate sharding:... A decent (albeit short-term) alternative:...Brokenwind314	Nov 15

Greetings! Development of World of Warcraft Classic is underway, and we’re very excited to share some of the challenges and solutions we’re working on. As we mentioned last BlizzCon, the process of restoring the classic game is not straightforward, and it’s important to us to take the time and effort to get it right—this includes poring over numerous game versions, data, and code; meticulously scrutinizing all the changes we’ve made over the years. Rest assured: The WoW Classic team is hard at work making it a reality, and we’re at a point in development where we’re ready to share some of the things we’ve been working on.
Nov 15 Which class are you planning on rolling? I'm still trying to decide between: Orc shaman: enhancement until 60 then resto for pvp Undead priest: shadow unless I decide to raid a bit Leaning towards these healers since I don't mind the role and 5 mans will be insanely easy to pickup. I've also been tossing around the idea of rogue/mage since that is what I played back on during vanilla/BC (had a blast ganking).Xano24	Nov 15 

All the work we’re doing will ultimately allow us to recreate an authentic classic experience on a platform that is much more optimized and stable, helping us avoid latency and stability issues. Additional improvements will include modern anti-cheat/botting detection, customer service and Battle.net integration, and similar conveniences that do not affect the core gameplay experience.
There are more passive methods to gain wow classic gold, but these are slower. For example, many people choose to fish in places like Tanaris, or kill Harpies in Feralas and loot items such as mageweaves. These are rather AFK-able, but again, not as rewarding. Some people choose to favour fun over anything, and like in any MMO (massively multiplayer online game), the best way to have fun is playing games with friends or your guild. Dungeon runs with your friends provide social interaction and are definitely helpful over the long-term for your gold stack!
Nov 7, 2017 Welcome - Please Read! Welcome to the Classic Discussion forum! This forum is here to provide you with a friendly environment where you can discuss all aspects of World of Warcraft: Classic with your fellow players. Community forums work best when participants treat their fellow posters with respect and courtesy, so we ask that you take the time to read through the forum Code of Conduct and guidelines before posting. Code of Conduct: http://us.battle.net/en/community/conduct Getting the Most Out of the Forums: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016792409 Important Reminders: Search The search function at the top of the World of Warcraft community site is extremely effective and robust. Before you create a new forum topic, please be use it to search for similar topics, blog posts, or web pages that may contain the answer for which you are looking. Making a new thread on an existing subject can result in your thread being deleted or, if you continue to re-post the same content, the loss of your forum privileges for spamming. Rating The forum rating system can be used to promote positive discussion and even report posts that violate the forum Code of Conduct. By hovering over a post you'll be presented with several options, including a "thumbs up" (Like) icon. Clicking the "thumbs up" icon will rate the post up. If enough people like a post, it will gain a Highly Rated status and appear at the top of related search results. Highly Rated posts will also have a highlighted background. You can also quickly report a post as trolling or spam, or use the report function to fill out a more comprehensive description of a violation. Please note that you can only rate each post once. Use your power wisely to help foster a positive and helpful forum community.Ornyx1 Nov 7, 2017
Nov 15 Which class are you planning on rolling? I'm still trying to decide between: Orc shaman: enhancement until 60 then resto for pvp Undead priest: shadow unless I decide to raid a bit Leaning towards these healers since I don't mind the role and 5 mans will be insanely easy to pickup. I've also been tossing around the idea of rogue/mage since that is what I played back on during vanilla/BC (had a blast ganking).Xano24 Nov 15
The Horde 12-20 (Barrens + Stonetalon Mountains) guide has been rewritten and revamped.  In addition, there has been numerous tweaks to the speedrun route to make things faster and easier to follow.  Also, in case you haven't noticed I am now adding about 40% more info per step and redoing all the images.  Unlike with my previous vanilla guides, I am now giving a brief explanation of where to go and what to do with each step along with any other helpful tips.
Finally, a clip of WoD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtKDmlNLVtE&t=5m26s This one I have petattack macroed to a button on the right-side action bar, 2nd from the top left side (icon looks like a bone bow). You can see my bird pet take off INSTANTLY when pressed. I realize this one doesn't prove much regarding Classic, but this is proof that it WAS functioning this fast until Legion. You can see the delay on Live yourself by logging into BFA.
Nov 15 Loot trading is perfect for vanilla Loot trading is a good thing. It promotes forming close bonds and guilds. For example, lets say you are in a 5 man pug party, and 3 of those party members are in a guild, or are friends. Those 3 can roll for each other and pass the loot to the friend who wants it. ---------------------------------------------------------- Since in vanilla, all casters and healers want the same loot, and all melee and ranged dps want the same loot, you can always justify rolling to increase your friends odds. Now, if there was no loot trading, then pugs get the same chance as you to win loot, and that isn't right. Vanilla is supposed to be about community and friendship, not giving everyone an equal chance at loot. Sure, some people will be inconvenienced by it, but vanilla IS inconvenient, and slow at times, but we sacrifice convenience for more social interaction, and loot sharing will bring friends and guilds together like never before. Blizzard understands what we want, so that's why i'll be playing classic, and you should too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PS: The loners who try to get through the game with none having their back will have a harder time, and that's how it's SUPPOSED to be in an mmo. cant you see? This is nothing if not an improvement.Windsheared159 Nov 15
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