After this past year of working on this project and forging our way through the various bugs and challenges, one consistent theme that’s emerged is that the difference between what we have and what we want is clearly visible. When we look at today’s World of Warcraft, we can see the differences between the modern game and the classic one. If we tried to update the reference client, we would have instead been tracking down a lot of “invisible” changes such as exploits waiting to be abused, crashes that don’t show up until you have millions of players online at once, and more. We chose to approach the problem in a way that makes our job clear and obvious instead of difficult and hard to see. 


Leatherworking has three specializations: Elemental, Tribal and Dragonscale. I’d pick up Tribal one. It allows to craft Devilsaur set items. Hunters, Rogues, Warriors, Feral Druids, even Enhancement Shamans and Retribution Paladins are among your potential clients. On any realm there is Un’Goro Mafia on Horde and Alliance, they control whole Un’Goro Crater zone and farm Devilsaurs 24/7. They are making thousands of gold. With Dragonscale Spec you are able to craft Black Dragon Mail set. Good demand as well among DPS classes Warriors, Hunters, Shamans, Paladins, for those who wants Bis Pre-Raid items fast and easy.
I hate to be the one to say this, but let’s face it: we’re not little kids any more. Even for those of us who played Vanilla when they were well into their adult years will have gotten 14 years older, 14 years wiser, and up to 14 years more experienced with video games. What does that mean for Classic WoW? Well for starters, the grand majority of people who are interested in Classic will now have full time jobs. Some might have families and kids they didn’t have before. Basically, WoW Classic won’t be a big of a chunk in people’s lives as it was back then. Considering how much time you will really need to put into Classic WoW to enjoy everything it has to offer, that might be an issue. Stringing together 40-odd people to storm Blackwing Lair might be significantly more difficult now than it was back then. However, due to the issues I talked about in the paragraph above, it might not need to be the long, arduous hours that many people put into Vanilla raiding. With the right preparation and knowledge, raids in Classic will most likely take considerably less time to complete than they did in Vanilla, which will hopefully counteract the fact that the majority of players will have less overall time and fewer long chunks of time to play. 6. Conclusion In essence, the game itself might not be changing from Vanilla to Classic WoW, but the knowledge and mindset of the players of the game will considerably change the way the game feels. Everyone probably figures that there won’t be that same sense of wonder that Vanilla WoW brought so long ago, and that’s true. Nostalgia can only carry Classic WoW so far. Thankfully, I believe that there is some truly solid game design inVanilla WoW, and the fact that Blizzard have doubled down on creating a verbatim experience for Classic WoW is something that people have been adamant about since the day they announced its release. Only time will tell if ClassicWoW truly is the thing people have been wanting, or whether the new CEO ofBlizzard Jay Allen Brack was right – we thought we wanted it, but we didn’t.
Gold in World of Warcraft Classic is an integral part of the game. In this article, we will discuss the importance/role of gold in vanilla WOW and how you can obtain it easily. Gold was vastly more important in classic; it gradually became less relevant/powerful as time went on in the current version of the game. It is very tedious (but not difficult) to gain gold in vanilla, which is why many people choose to purchase gold.
Once WoW Classic Launches As Appointed, New WoW Currency Just Like WOW Gold Must Be Provided For Almost Anything Including Exchange WoW Items. Exactly, We MMOAH, A Platform Owning Hundreds Of MMO Game Currency Including The Coming World Of Warcraft Classic Gold Keeping Up To Date And Satisfying-Full Inventory, Have Been Selling Game Currency For Several Years To Worldwide Clients, We'll Provide 100% Secure Online Payment System, Fast Delivery And Cheapest Prices Even 100% Refund With NO.1 Reputation Checked On Trustpilot, Ownedcore And Epicnpc Reviews. Now, We Start To Accept WoW Classic Gold Quick Order, Don't Delay Any Longer, Hope A Joyful Trading.
If you’re into MMORPG games, you’ve probably heard that World of Warcraft is preparing to release a classic version of the game this summer. However, not many people have played in the real Classic and current in-game classes might seem completely unrecognizable to some. In the early days of World of Warcraft, the class choice was very important – leveling was super slow, which meant that you could get stuck with your character for months.
When it comes to Classic, Blizzard's goal is to provide an authentic Vanilla experience, but they also needed to come up with technology to handle many players at launch, which is similar to sharding. While the use of this technology will be limited to the first month following launch, many players are questioning this decision and wouldn't like to see layering in the game at all.
This is for those who want to own a piece of Vanilla WoW history!  This tier requires your physical mailing address so I can mail you the printed paperback binded mini leveling guide/book.  By default I will sign "Joana" on each book!  If you wish for me to write something else out (such as my real name) you can request that as well.  And finally, thank you for the support and I will continue to make the best leveling guides for WoW!
You will have to talk with flight masters in most towns or cities you visit in order to gain access to that settlement's flight path. Flight masters who have a stop you have not yet unlocked will have a green displayed above their head (and on the mini map), much like a NPC with a quest. Unlocking flight paths as you progress through various zones will allow you to pay for a quick ride to a destination you have previously visited. This method of travel is significantly faster than walking or riding a mount.
This is for those who want to own a piece of Vanilla WoW history!  This tier requires your physical mailing address so I can mail you the printed paperback binded mini leveling guide/book.  By default I will sign "Joana" on each book!  If you wish for me to write something else out (such as my real name) you can request that as well.  And finally, thank you for the support and I will continue to make the best leveling guides for WoW!
Nov 15 How to fix paladin dps Just make holy wrath & exorcism work on all types of enemy but not affect player characters. It's an easy fix that will make pally dps better in pve but stay the same as they were in vanilla in pvp. Put this thing into a deep ret talent so it will require people to spec deep in ret to be able to dps. A good spot is add it with two-hand weapon specialization making it so that by putting talents into it all hostile aside from players and undeads(since they are already affected by the default version) to be affected by the dmg and effects of the spells effectiveness by 33%/66%/100%. I doubt they would even do this so im just throwing out ideas since too many of you dont actually read the forum and only read the OP here you go to explain a bit of my reasoning because this change wont make ret stronger than pure dps; clearly most of you people didnt play vanilla nor know anything about naxx. ...Toushin260 Nov 15
Nov 15 Dual Boxing in Classic I was seriously thinking about being a masochist and playing a paladin in classic but then I wondered if dual boxing will still be possible in classic with the change in engines running the game. I've never dual boxed so will have to research how it works. However, it hit me that I can dual box a warrior and a priest then transfer the priest to my main account at 60 so I will have the best tank and best healer in the game to play around with. Anyone else planning on doing this and have any good resources to start learning about it?Twiinkedd6 Nov 15
This is another one that will most likely be a boon rather than a bane to the player base, though time will tell just how 14years of experience will affect the economy of Classic WoW. There has been no concrete word on just how AddOns will work in Classic, but if the infrastructure of the game works the same as it does in retail, there is a good chance that most of the mods that work in retail will work in Classic. This means that quite a few people will be running around with a whole host of gathering, crafting, auctioning, and gold making mods. Now, those mods did exist back in Vanilla, but not in the same way they do now, and not as many people had them back then as will in Classic. This will drastically affect how effective the auction house will be, and hopefully will affect the economy as a whole in a positive way. Another thing that will most likely see a large increase in popularity is carry runs. These have steadily grown in popularity since Vanilla, and rest assured with the old 40 man raid size that there will be quite a few “Molten Core full carry master loot ON PST for prices GOLD ONLY” being spammed in trade chat. Whether tokens will be available in Classic has yet to be discussed, but if so it will have an enormous impact on the economy of Classic. This, in addition to the differences I will cover in the next section, will have a pretty large impact on the endgame of WoW Classic.
Our initial runs exposed a few (expected) issues: the game sometimes crashed, didn’t recognize our modern video cards, and was incompatible with our current login system. That first pass also couldn’t support any of our modern security and anti-cheating capabilities. Clearly we had a lot of work to do to make WoW Classic live up to the Blizzard standard of quality, and deliver the experience players want.
Nov 15 How to fix paladin dps Just make holy wrath & exorcism work on all types of enemy but not affect player characters. It's an easy fix that will make pally dps better in pve but stay the same as they were in vanilla in pvp. Put this thing into a deep ret talent so it will require people to spec deep in ret to be able to dps. A good spot is add it with two-hand weapon specialization making it so that by putting talents into it all hostile aside from players and undeads(since they are already affected by the default version) to be affected by the dmg and effects of the spells effectiveness by 33%/66%/100%. I doubt they would even do this so im just throwing out ideas since too many of you dont actually read the forum and only read the OP here you go to explain a bit of my reasoning because this change wont make ret stronger than pure dps; clearly most of you people didnt play vanilla nor know anything about naxx. ...Toushin260 Nov 15
With the Classic beta now out it seems every related article somehow manages to spark the eternal war of "Vanilla was the best WoW sucks now" and "lol nostalgia goggles, Vanilla sucked, enjoy your two weeks of Classic". I have to say, even though I understand the principles behind the battle and the reasons people behave and talk this way... I actually REALLY don't get it on a deeper level.
Earning gold in World of Warcraft: Classic is all about optimizing your spendings. Back in the day, your character’s skills were acquired from a trainer, using money. Don’t just buy everything he or she offers! Read the skill descriptions and be mindful about them. Quite a few characters can live through the levelling process without learning some of their utility or damage spells. These won’t go anywhere and you’ll be able to learn them later on.
The original animations have also been restored, but WoW’s animation system is tightly coupled with its gameplay code. We had to make changes to both data and code to get the animations back to the 1.12 look. We ran into a few bugs along the way, such as models that should appear prone instead appearing upright, but we were able to correct these with a few fixes.
A lot has happened in World of Warcraft in the fifteen years since it originally launched, and over that time we’ve come to expect certain things, not just in WoW, but in games in general. As players explore Azeroth as it existed back in 2006 during the WoW Classic beta, they’re reporting bugs – but in many cases, these ‘bugs’ are really just features that are working as intended.
If you like playing solo – there’s no better option than the Hunter.  Hunter is considered the most efficient solo-leveling class so you’ll ding level 60 in no time. As a Hunter, you will be able to tame various beasts across the world and use them as your pets. Pets help you tank groups of mobs and enable you to tackle some of the group quests alone. However, their PvE power falls off in the end-game, but their PvP potential is enormous. Skilled Hunters are a pain to deal with since it’s almost impossible to catch a masterful hunter.
Our initial runs exposed a few (expected) issues: the game sometimes crashed, didn’t recognize our modern video cards, and was incompatible with our current login system. That first pass also couldn’t support any of our modern security and anti-cheating capabilities. Clearly we had a lot of work to do to make WoW Classic live up to the Blizzard standard of quality, and deliver the experience players want.
While our initial effort helped us determine the experience we wanted to provide, this second prototype really defined how we’d get there. Starting from a modern architecture—with all its security and stability changes—means the team’s efforts can be focused on pursuing an authentic classic experience. Any differences in behavior between our development builds and the patch 1.12 reference can be systematically cataloged and corrected, while still operating from a foundation that’s stable and secure.
World of Warcraft: Classic might be just around the corner, so it’s about time to start preparing. We’ve already published a class selection guide, and today we’re focusing on the most important resource of the game, of course, it is gold. Many players who played World of Warcraft back in the day might remember the times when you needed to count every spent penny and the times when gold farmers roamed the Azeroth on their super expensive epic mounts. In vanilla WoW, gold was everything. And we’re here to help you save as much of it as possible. So, without further due, let’s dive in our World of Warcraft: Classic gold making guide.

Nov 15 Thank you for the demo I just want to say thank you to Blizzard for the demo. I seriously had so much fun - so much more fun than I've had trying to play wow in YEARS. I know not everything was 100% accurate to classic, but it was just a demo so that doesn't worry me too much. I still had a million times more fun playing that demo than retail in any case. THE THINGS I LOVED: (1) I died so much. Like... SO MUCH, and that's alright! Once I finally finished whatever it was I was doing, it felt really rewarding! My group and I were actually laughing when we party wiped. No one insulted anyone or pointed blame, we just had fun. (2) Things took time. The journey mattered, it wasn't just about hitting end game asap. I felt accomplished at the end of all those time consuming things I did. (3) I had fun exploring! I spent so much time just running around, not knowing what the heck to do, but that was FUN. I had FUN getting lost and finding treasure chests. (4) Seeing the classic models again! Tbh, the races all look rubbery and stupid now... I honestly think the old racial looks are nicer. (5) Reading quests was necessary again, so the story mattered to me. No one booted me from the party for "taking too long" because I wanted to read. (6) The community! There were actually people doing RP stuff and talking in character. Everyone in the chat was just having fun. (7) All of the inconveniences - running out of mana, no mounts, running slowly on foot, little or no flightpaths... These things are fun because they're not just handed to me. I had to work hard and play the game to get things. (8) People constantly buffed other players, because that small boost could be the reason you didn't die when a roaming centaur attacked you from behind. THE THINGS I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT: (1) I've heard rumors about possible sharding... PLEASE DO NOT SHARD. PLEASE. I can understand if it's temporary just for the initial launch, and only for starting zones. I think that is a decent enough compromise for the inevitable problem of overpopulation for the first few weeks. But if we're talking about full scale realm sharding, PLEASE DO NOT! Cross-realm features and sharding are what ruined communities in wow, same with dungeon finder and other such things, and these features are very unwanted for a classic player like me. (2) The elite raptor I tamed as a hunter was not stronger than the non-elite raptor I tamed at the same level. In classic, elite animals had better stats as hunter pets once tamed, compared to the same non-elite version of that animal at the same level. (3) I think the mana and health regen rates were a bit too high? I'm not certain, but if they were I honestly want them to be genuine. It's okay if it's hard - challenges make games fun! Anyway, thank you again! I had a ton of fun, and as long as classic is true to classic with all of its pros AND cons, I feel certain that it will be a success.Sarai10 Nov 15
First thing you should do is to learn the market for the specific item you would like to monopolize. Let’s say it is Kingsblood. We can see a stack of Kingsblood is selling for 1 gold. There are 10 stacks on Auction House. To control the market, you have to buy out all the lots of Kingsblood, even single ones. Next move is to make auctions of Kingsblood you have bought for the price you want. Be reasonable and make it 2 gold. But all people are still being used to the old price of 1 gold and will not buy your Kingsblood at first. You have to maintain your auctions for 2 gold all the time, no need to put all Kingsblood you have at once, 3-5 lots are enough at the beginning. You can see, other sellers may start create auctions for 2 gold as well. That’s what we need.  But if someone is selling for cheaper price, buy out their Kingsblood immediately. Soon people will start to accept your price of 2 gold as a regular price and will buy your stuff. Now you just to have to sell all Kingsblood you got. Control several markets. It can be anything, even twink blue items or items level 20-30 or 30-40. Same strategy works everywhere. It requires lots of time to track the markets and check auction house. It is not that easy as it may seem, you should spend at least a week of monitoring to be sure about prices, you will fail if you buy out everything at once without research. Soon or later, too many people will decide to sell your item as well. As they could see price change and think it had happened naturally. Market becomes overflooded. It is important to quit before the collapse. This always happens.

I’m used to either wanting to play a game or not wanting to play a game. But WoW Classic… WoW Classic is different. Maybe I’m just falling victim to nostalgia. Maybe I’m conflating the people I played with in 2004-2006 with the game I played in 2004-2006. Nostalgia is a hugely powerful motivator, after all, and even us jaded reporters are susceptible to it. I’m not sure how I’m going to feel about stepping back into a game that was genuinely slower, jankier, and less well-balanced than the WoW that exists today. I do know I’m looking forward to it more than any other launch I expect this year. Some friends of mine have already started planning for a return. I’m going to join them. It’s annoying to find myself pulled back to a game version I genuinely don’t think is as good, in many ways, as what exists today — and yet, here I am.


Why Skinning? Skinning is incredibly easy to level up while you are leveling your character. The leather that you skin will almost always sell on the Auction House (albeit not for much, but hey– it’s free gold!). Even if you don’t want to take the effort to sell the skins on the Auction House, you can simply vendor them for a significant amount of extra gold.
Kaivax, a WoW forum community manager, revealed that WoW Classic's class design, battleground mechanics and stats on existing items will be set to their 1.12 state, despite the game releasing content that expands beyond that. This removes "progressive itemization," so if the stats on a specific piece of equipment was changed during the original updates, that won't take effect in this version.

For classes who rely on energy regeneration such as Rogues, things have also changed significantly since the classic era. Regeneration used to occur in chunks based on the server “heartbeat.” So, to gain 20 energy, it would take a full two seconds. Today, the system is smoothed out so that that 1 energy regenerates every tenth of a second. This difference changed the timing of being able to use certain abilities. What seems like a minor convenience today actually changes the very flow of combat rotations and burst capabilities in classic gameplay. We felt this was important to restore to provide this authentic experience.
The priest was considered the best overall healer in vanilla WoW. Priests had the biggest selection of healing and defensive spells which could be used in various different situations. Due to this fact, Priests had an easy time finding groups and guilds. If you’ll embark on leveling priest, expect some random whispers from other players inviting you to join their group as a healer. Shadow Priests were also considered as one of the best duelists in the game boasting with serious damage and healing.
While this might be a change for the better,leveling in Classic will most certainly be different than leveling in Vanilla. In addition to sharding making the beginner zones much more friendly to the hordes and hordes of players storming the gates when Classic comes out, theVanilla leveling process has been studied thoroughly since the game came out 14years ago. Since then, not only have players leveled multiple alts and characters through the beginning zones in Vanilla, but they have done so on a multitude of private servers intended to have the most ‘Blizzlike’ experience. So while leveling a character from 1 to 60 will still be a long, arduous process, it will no longer be marred by mistakes made by players going from zone to zone, continent to continent, searching desperately for a place to level. The zones and routes have been thoroughly mapped out by the Vanilla WoW community at large, and with the internet being much more robust in 2019, that information is just a google search away. Is that a bad thing? I would venture to say that it isn’t, as knowing where to go and what to do doesn’t make it any less challenging and time consuming. It does take away from that exploration aspect,however. You might not have those moments of wandering into Feralas for the first time, or running from Storm wind to Strangle thorn just for the hell of it,or getting lost trying to get to Iron forge from Darnassus on a fresh Night elf.No, those moments, just like many fond memories of Vanilla, are lost in time.
Wait, /sit to trigger crits is p-server thing? I distinctly remember people saying that if you sit, you will be crit when I played 1.12 Vanilla. On top of that - there’s that pally that one shot Kazzak in early Vanilla because he stacked a shitload of reckoning when it didn’t have a limit - it’s not inconceivable that he did it without /sit to trigger crits, but it would take him so, SO long to do that without /sit.
Nov 15 5 reasons I'm doubtful of WoW Classic I played WoW from patch 1.4 until Sunwell. And I'm not convinced on Classic. 1. I understand nostalgia for the gameplay, and it was a great game, by I don't get why people would want the old graphics when it looked outdated back then. Someone will level a warrior or rogue at snail pace and those 2004 boring graphics will reinforce his perception that the game is bad because it looks bad. 2. The lack of a second talent tree. This was the most demanded feature and I don't see people sticking with the game without it. 3. This has always been in the game, but weekly resets, I never got it, let people able to reset raids. Maybe have a 2 hours cooldown, but if a guild wants to farm a raid every night, or twice on a sunday, or farm the first 3 bosses of MC, let them. Gearing 40-60 people with weekly resets, in this day and age, good luck. 4. Dungeon finder, not sure people will like that, again bad decision. 5. The graphics, no seriously, this is bad on every level of game design, it just make the game look worse, a straight negative with no benefit.Pekuakami24	Nov 15

Nov 15 You Absolutely Cannot Have Sharding This will not work well with a classic experience. Myself and the vast majority of my friends plan on coming back for classic. None of them want sharding. I know I don't speak for everyone but this mechanic will completely ruin the experience. Just voicing my opinion as I am incredibly excited about this project.Wurmknight82 Nov 15
I now have a Patreon Page where you guys can support me while I work on Vanilla WoW leveling guides every day.  I appreciate all of you who support me on there, it means a lot to me right now.  Doing this full time is taxing on my financial situation.  My goal is to make the best Vanilla WoW leveling guides on the web and the donations keep me going at it healthfully.  There is also cool rewards you get in return for donating.  Thanks!

Preface - I haven't played WoW for any length of time since quitting at the end of WotLK. I dabbled in the next few expansions, where it seemed gold was overabundant, not sure if that's what killed the gold farmers/gold bots/sellers, but I didn't seem to see any, or even think I might have a use for them. However, with WoW Classic, I can see a market for them to come back. Did Blizz ever put something in the game to eliminate this after WotLK, or was it the gold abundance that destroyed their market. If not, I see the gold sellers and websites coming back.
This did not just simply come randomly, however. Players have been demanding and asking for World of Warcraft Classic for many years now. And Blizzard has likely learned from companies like Jagex that regained a huge portion of their player-base with the launch of Old School RuneScape, which prior to it had a 2006Scape private server. Similarly, World of Warcraft Classic/Vanilla has been around in the form of private servers for many years now and has been very popular. Even top players and streamers have been known to play on these private servers. The only issue is Blizzard were not the ones profiting from these ventures.
Who is Joana?  Joana, (AKA Mancow, or FuriousPaul) speedran 1-60 vanilla WoW from 2005 - 2007.  I have been server first to level 60 seven times in a row, along with winning Blizzard's "First to level 50" contest they held back in 2006.  I also have the fastest time through original vanilla 1-60 WoW in 4 days 20 hours. I have produced a very useful 1-60 horde speed leveling guide along with a 1-60 speedrun video.

For another example of lighting, we looked at Elwynn Forest. We had a period in Warcraft’s history where we changed all the lighting equations and as a result, our environment artists had to take a pass over all of the zones to improve the lighting and take advantage of the new equations. To recreate the original experience, we had to rewind those changes. The first thing we did was restore the old lighting data. This brought us much closer to the original lighting—and with a few more changes to the distance formula, fog formulas, and some changes to shadows, we were able to bring things even closer to the original lighting.

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Though World of Warcraft Classic won’t be widely available until later this year, many players received access to the game via its beta launch last week. Days later, Blizzard has published a list of non-issues that players keep reporting as bugs, advising these players that ‘the nature’ of the game ‘sometimes invokes different memories for different players…’ Those discrepancies have resulted in some players perceiving normal gameplay as buggy.

The priest was considered the best overall healer in vanilla WoW. Priests had the biggest selection of healing and defensive spells which could be used in various different situations. Due to this fact, Priests had an easy time finding groups and guilds. If you’ll embark on leveling priest, expect some random whispers from other players inviting you to join their group as a healer. Shadow Priests were also considered as one of the best duelists in the game boasting with serious damage and healing.
The quickest way to level up is to travel through the game's zones, completing all the quests you encounter along the way. Completing quests grants you Experience points, which will slowly fill in your experience bar with blue or purple. When the bar fills, you reach the next level. Alternatively, you could choose to run Dungeons or Battlegrounds, which are not covered in this beginner's guide.
This past BlizzCon, Blizzard announced thatWoW Classic would be coming out in the Summer of 2019. Along with it came a demo of the early leveling zones and several panels worth of information that assured the eager public that Classic would indeed be as faithful and ‘blizzlike’ as possible. Having played through the entire demo I can agree that the game is almost exactly as I remember Vanilla being 14 years ago. The only difference in design being the implementation of ‘sharding’, a process which splits up the player base in different instances of the same zone to alleviate some of the overcrowding in early zones. Blizzard has also gone on the record to say that sharding would only be in the game for the first couple weeks after the launch of Classic and that they would then disable it once the player base had spread out more. However, sharding isn’t the only thing thatVanilla players might find different about their experience. In this article, I am going to go through each of the aspects that will most likely change inClassic WoW, whether Blizzard likes it or not.
To gain gold in World of Warcraft, you will primarily be grinding professions which are fantastic for receiving rewards. Mining is an example of a great profession at an early-game level. While Herbalism is actually the best gathering profession, the issue is it uses consumables which can make the profession rather costly, with the investment required.
WoW: Classic is scheduled for August 27 (technically August 26 if you're in the Americas). The soonest that you can play it is starting in May, during Blizzard's scheduled stress tests. To opt-in you must have an active subscription on your Battle.net account. If you do, go to Account Management and select the Wow Classic beta. Keep in mind, there will be level caps during the test. The schedule is as follows:
For some weird reason Warlock used to be underrepresented in vanilla WoW. However, the least popular doesn’t mean that they were bad. Warlocks had amazing damage and some truly unique utility abilities allowing them to summon players or create Healthstones for the whole group. Similarly to Hunters, Warlocks were amazing for solo players with the ability to summon various demons to help them.
World of Warcraft Classic is currently in beta, which means some players are getting a chance to experience a much older version of the MMO ahead of its release. WoW Classic is based on how WoW played in August 2006, back around update 1.12. Back then, things were different. Tauren hitboxes were much larger, sitting could cause certain combat effects to not trigger and completed quests were marked with dots and not question marks. Strange days.  
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